Reshma B interviews Lee “Scratch” Perry for her BBC feature film

Scratch’s mythical soundlab also produced classic, career-defining hits for reggae icons like Max Romeo (“War Inna Babylon”), Jr Murvin (“Police and Thieves”), and The Congos (“Row Fisherman Row”) to name a few.

A new compilation album, Crucial Cuts From The Heart Of The Ark (1973-1978), released on vinyl LP by Shanachie Records, collects these and eight other examples of Scratch’s sonic genius accompanied by such luminaries as King Tubby, The Heptones, Dillinger, and the mystical melodica master Augustus Pablo.

In her BBC TV documentary film, Studio 17: The Lost Reggae Tapes, Reshma B spoke with Perry at length, one of his last in-depth interviews. Their lively conversation revealed amazing details of The Upsetter’s mystical vision and creative process—-the secrets of The Black Ark.

RESHMA B: How would you describe the Black Ark sound?

SCRATCH: Well, that sound was a special sound. That studio did come to create some people with good vibration, spiritual vibration. So whatsoever those people were hearing from that time, they think they could hear spirit talking to them, and the spirit showing them something. So they love to deal with spirit. When you hear anything it always have to have spirit in it. Like illumination or Illuminati and that. But we not in anything like that. They want to hear something that spirit talking to you. The Ark of the Covenant is a spiritual vibration. The ancient spirits speak, and speak through people. So everything is spirit, because God is a spirit. And Satan the Devil also is a spirit. But Satan need competition.  

RESHMA B: You worked in so many different studios, what made you open The Black Ark?

SCRATCH: I was giving Coxsone [Dodd] a lot of ideas. And most of the ideas, he give it to, like, Delroy Wilson to sing. And I did want to sing myself, but him think my voice wasn’t good enough to sing. So I say “Okay, I’m gonna teach him a lesson.” I made the Black Ark to make a revenge on Coxsone. To bring Coxsone down to nothing and to make him know that I can sing. Him say me can’t sing. So me going to prove me can sing. So me build the Black Ark so that he can’t tell me that me can’t sing. And when me finished with him, he was nothing. When I finished with him he couldn’t walk anymore. He was crippled. When I done prove that I can sing, he couldn’t stand on his leg anymore. He was walking on his knee—paralyzed, crippled.

RESHMA B: Is that the Black Ark effect?

SCRATCH: A whole heap of thing. It produce rain, whirlwind, hurricane, tidal wave, lightning, thunder, hailstone, earthquake… And it preserve life and it kill. It cripple, it cramp, and paralyze.  

RESHMA B: Was that the reason you had to wipe out the Black Ark studio? To burn it down in 1979?

SCRATCH: I can’t. Not even me can wipe out the Black Ark. Because why it is black—no care how white you are, your shadow is black. And no matter how pink you look, your shadow is black. You understand me? If you are Indian or Chiney, or a negro or a white man, your shadow must be black. So the power of black is very serious. But the black man don’t know that him powerful. They can’t make him know yunno. Because he will kill the judge and kill the barrister them too, and kill the jury.  

Crucial Cuts From The Heart of The Ark (1973-1978)(Shanachie Records)

TRACK LIST

SIDE ONE:

1. AUGUSTUS PABLO/LEE PERRY “Vibrate on”

2. LEE PERRY/CONGOS: “Fisherman Dub”

3. MAX ROMEO: “War Ina Babylon”

4. THE HEPTONES: “Sufferer’s Time”

5. JR. BYLES: “Fever”  

SIDE TWO:

1. THE UPSETTERS/KING TUBBY/DILLINGER: “Scratch The Dub Organiser”

2. CARLTON & THE SHOES: “Better Days”

3. JR. MURVIN: “Police & Thieves”

4. LEE PERRY/ UPSETTERS: “Traveling In Dub”

5. ZAP POW: “River”

6. LEE PERRY/UPSETTERS: “Dreader Dub”

Purchase A Vinyl LP At Your Local Record Store

LINER NOTES: Lee “Scratch” Perry: A genius? A madman? A mystic man? There can be no doubt that he is one of the most consequential figures in the world of music, creator of countless reggae classics, a mentor to Bob Marley, an architect of dub music, and inspiration to musicians around the world ranging from The Clash to the Beastie Boys. Though “Scratch” may have at times seemed crazy, it is worth noting that his often-appointed title as a ‘creative genius’ appears accurate, as geniuses tend to see things others do not see and inhabit realities unseen. On June 20, 2025 Shanachie Entertainment will release Crucial Cuts From The Heart of the Ark (1973-1978), a special vinyl LP compilation of Perry’s celebrated Black Ark studio recordings, including both reggae classics such as Max Romeo’s “War Ina Babylon” and Junior Murvin’s “Police and Thieves” and wonderful rarities such as “Fisherman Dub” and Carlton & The Shoes “Better Days.” As the music on this album reveals, Lee Perry’s Black Ark creations re-arrange the familiar into something new and magical.

Lee Perry a/k/a Scratch, Pipecock Jackson and the Upsetter, was born Hugh Rainford Perry in 1936, growing up poor in a rural parish of Northwest Jamaica. From a young age he was fascinated by music, was a great dancer and attended sound system dances whenever possible. Around 1960 he arrived in the vibrant music scene of Kingston, determined to become a singer. He was taken on by producer Coxsone Dodd as a “handyman,” helping with his Downbeat sound system and studio work. Soon he was pitching songs to Dodd, who was impressed with his clever–sometimes risqué—lyrics, if not Lee’s limited singing voice. In 1963, The Wailers auditioned for Dodd and Lee became involved in helping them shape their music. Soon Lee was able to record and some of his tunes became popular—especially “Chicken Scratch,” which gave rise to his nickname. Over the next few years he worked for most all of the top producers—Duke Reid, Coxsone Dodd, Joe Gibbs, Clancy Eccles and Prince Buster—as an A & R person and songwriter, always departing due to lack of remuneration and credit. He often recorded mocking tunes such as “People Funny Boy” directed at his former employers.

By 1968 Lee “Scratch” Perry was an independent producer, naming his studio musicians The Upsetters and scoring instrumental hits with innovative rhythms that helped forge the new reggae style. In 1970-1971 he produced what many consider the greatest works by the Wailers; in 1968 one of his Upsetters productions hit #5 on the UK pop chart via Trojan Records and more hits followed. That gave him the funds to build his own studio and in 1973 the legendary Black Ark was born. The equipment at Black Ark was very basic; some musicians marveled that it was not even “professional.” Yet Lee was able to orchestrate an amazing, powerful sound out of it. Because of his strong musical sense and commitment to Black culture, Rastafari and creativity, musicians both established and new flocked to Black Ark.

Among the many landmark classics cut at Black Ark are such incisive political commentaries as Max Romeo’s “War Ina Babylon,” and Junior Murvin’s “Police and Thieves” (covered by the Clash). The Congos’ “Heart of the Congos” album is a roots classic and there are many wonderful obscure singles such as Carlton and the Shoes’ “Better Days” and Zap Pow’s “River.” Many dub creations made innovative use of Scratch’s sonic wizardry via echo, phasing, reverb, flanging, wah-wah and various sound effects. “Crucial Cuts From The Heart of the Ark” is an immersive sound experience that takes the listener into the magical world of Perry’s classic work at Black Ark. The album cover features an iconic photo of Scratch at work in the studio, taken by celebrated photographer Kate Simon, who notes that Scratch liked it so much he had a mural of the photo painted on the studio wall.

It all came to an end in 1978 as Lee, besieged by extortionists, freeloaders, religious fanatics, and assorted pilgrims, let the studio lapse and then he set it on fire, some say due to frustration, others say from mental collapse. He left Jamaica, collaborated with musicians around the world, toured as a sort of mystic trickster/shaman and prospered. But Lee “Scratch” Perry’s work at Black Ark will always stand as his ultimate creative achievement.

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